Toyone vs Awaii! A riichi battle!

Someone once asked me what will happen if Toyone and Awai battle it out. 

And here we will try to find out.

Edit note: to those who read this before, I forgot to count the starting hands so you might need to read it again.

 

Before we begin we will make certain assumption on this match. That is, 

  • Awai will declare riichi on the first turn like in the semi-finals.

No matter how I personally think this is stupid thing to do, its what Awai did so I’ll assume this is her normal behavior.

  • 5-6 shanten is active and will affect Toyone’s hand.

Without this condition, I’ll give this match to Toyone immediately. Because assuming that 5-6 shanten will not affect Toyone’s pursuit ability. (Which is not a bad assumption since all three abilities shown in the captain side-A managed to surpass 5-6 shanten)  then, it meant Toyone will also start on tenpai or near tenpai that will allow her to pursue Awai’s hand and win in the next turn. *sweatdrop*

Thus, in interest of fairness, let’s assume 5-6 shanten will work.

  • Toyone will draw effective tiles after Awai called double riichi due to her Pursuit Riichi. 

Now the is out of the way. Let’s go to the interesting part? Who will win? Pursuit Riichi or Double Riichi?  

My answer; it probably depends on the dice roll.

Remember that  mahjong is 17 tiles in a row arranged in 2 stacks. Meaning a row of tiles is 17 x 2 = 34 tiles. 

Then, you need to take into account the tiles that are taken to form the starting hands of the players which is 13 x 4 = 52 tiles.

Assuming that there are no skipped turns, for Awaii to win  there should be more than  4 x 6 = 24 tiles before the corner.

Thus, if the dice rolled 2 that meant there are 56 tiles that has already been taken which meant we are  on the second wall already. (34 x 2 ) – 56 = 12.

Thus, Awai will win on a dice roll of 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. .

7,8,9,10,11,12 will be good for Toyone since it will just be start of a new corner and thus Awai will take a  longer time to win.

Conclusion: 

Pursuit Riichi vs. Double Riichi will really depend on dice roll. Though, the balance can only be maintained  if there is no external factor affecting the dice. (Not totally impossible in the Saki-verse)

Of course, in a real match Toyone has another ability that will prove a kryptonite to Awai. – Tomobiki. The 5-6 shanten is hopeless if she used calls to break it. ^^

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16 Responses to Toyone vs Awaii! A riichi battle!

  1. Cytrus says:

    Lol XD!!! Never thought about this matchup, but now I want to see Toyone pulverizing Awai in the individuals or something xD.

    Awai double riichi –> Toyone double riichi –> Awai plays into a double riichi/ippatsu.

    Awai goes crazy –> "I'm invincible" speech –> Awai double riichi –> Toyone double riichi –> Awai plays into a double riichi/ippatsu.

    Rinse and repeat xD

  2. Yumichin says:

    Major mistake there. Rolls above 7 are bad for Awai. 8 is the worst, as it leaves only 2 tiles after the last corner. 9 was what Shizu rolled when she broke Awai. A roll of 12 still leaves only 10 tiles, which is much worse than a roll of 2, which leaves 24 tiles after the corner.

    Best case scenario for Awai is 7, where a full 34 tiles are left after the last corner. But even that leaves 36 tiles before the corner. With no calls everyone will have 9 turns before the last corner. Toyone will get tenpai on her 7th draw latest, and Awai will deal into ippatsu on her 8th draw latest. She won't even get to call kan.

    In other words, Toyone hard counters Awai even with 5-6 shanten active.

    • Could you please explain? Why 7?

      Wait. I'll try this on a real mahjong set instead of using math. Give me a second.

    • …. Damn. I made a mistake. I forgot to count the starting hands. *embarrassed^ editing the hand now.

      Thanks for telling me. ^^

    • Ok. I fixed it though I think there is something wrong with your analysis. The less tile before the corner, the less time Awai needs to win since her ability is winning after the corner. Thus, roll 6 and below should be better for Awai. While 7 and above sucks for her since she has many tiles before the next corner.

      • Yumichin says:

        Rolls 7 and below are better for Awai, but still not enough. Your calculation seems to be missing a wall. The initial draws are taken from the first two walls if the roll is 2-7, with 12-2 respectively remaining in the second wall. The third wall is still intact, and contains a full 34 tiles. Only after that is the last corner. The total is 46-36 tiles respectively. Significantly more than 24.

        • … I think I found out where we are confusing each other.

          Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Awai's power is to win after the first corner that she rounded up. That means, I thought 7 and below are good for her since I didn't count on the third corner but the first corner that she meets. That means at 2-7, Awai will have 12-2 tiles before the corner… that meant depending on her seat, she could win in the first to fourth turn.

          … which is horribly hax when I think about it so I could be wrong. ^^

          If we do count in the third corner exclusively (not the first corner that Awai meets)…
          Yeah Toyone will take this match without even thinking hard about it. ^^

  3. T.M says:

    Awai wins right after the LAST corner in the wall, not the first as FunaQ says.

    Toyone's pursuit riichi would always win against Awai's double riichi as there wouldn't be enough time for Awai to reach the last corner in the wall before Toyone gets past the 5-6 shanten limit and builds a pursuit riichi hand and then hits Awai with an ippatsu win right after declaring her infamous pursuit riichi.

    • Truthfully, the only way Awai's ability will prevail against Toyone is if she can win on the first corner she meets. If she wins on the LAST corner, I agree that Awai is utterly boned. ^^

  4. WindLament says:

    Ooh cool – I never knew there was a site like this.

    But anyway, the 5-6 shanten won't affect Toyone if Awai goes double-riichi. If the series has shown us anything, it's that Awai's abilities are easily affected by the abilities of others (a la Shizuno, Himeko and even Takami as explained by Awai's team mates). If Awai goes double-riichi, this will activate Toyone's pursuit ippatsu riichi which would negate Awai's influence on Toyone's starting hand. This would mean Awai would deal in to Toyone on her second turn.

    • nightsentinel09 says:

      Yep. You're right. If 5-6 Shanten doesn't work due to Toyone's power. Awai doesn't have a prayer in winning a direct battle against Toyone. The only way to win and even then the advantage is still on Toyone is if Awai's passive triumph.

      • Alex says:

        it's been a while since anyone's had this discussion but their is still depending on the specifics of her powers Awai could win
        i'v always wondered does she have to intend to call richi to get her ishanten hand because if not then she could go continuously for lower but speedier hands

        • nightsentinel09 says:

          You're right. Its going to be a different battle if Awai doesn't riichi and just use her passive debuff exclusively. If she goes for cheap hands with her power its a deadly combination. Though, I wouldn't discount Toyone yet, her "not alone" ability due to the calling nature of it, must be pretty fast for it.

          So if we discount their riichi power, it would be a speed battle between the two. (This assumes that Toyone's unrevealed 4 other ability isn't counted)..

          .

          • David says:

            Haven't two other of Toyone's abilities been implicitly revealed already? Shakkou (red opening) let's her call dora tiles that are in between two other tiles in her hand (shown in the flashback scenes where she uses it to win against her future teammates), and it seems like she used Senshou (first wins) to try for an advantage in the very last hand of quarterfinals (at least in anime version).

  5. nightsentinel09 says:

    Technically, it isn't confirmed yet and I'm mostly going for broad generalization there. But, you're essentially right. ^^

    Speaking of said ability, Shakkou might be a nice power to headbutt with Awai's kan dora depending on the exact mechanic. It would be a nice dora battle…

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